TRANSCRIPT | Rappler Talk Investigative, Part 1: Edgar Matobato’s path to redemption

Edgar Matobato, former assassin and member of the Davao Death Squad (DDS), turned witness in investigations into extrajudicial killings under former president Rodrigo Duterte. He has left the country and is said to be in protective custody.

In a sit-down interview in 2023, he said killers were exported to Manila to carry out the brutal killings. We are running excerpts of that interview conducted by investigative editor Chay Hofileña, who sat down with Father Flavie Villanueva of Project Paghilom on Thursday, January 9. Villanueva had guided Matobato during the seven years that he was in hiding.

This is the transcript of that interview.

Chay Hofileña: Last March 29, 2023, I did a discreet interview with former Davao Death Squad member Edgar Matobato. We did not release it for security reasons and kept it for the right time. We kept track of developments in his life since 2016 when he first surfaced and appeared before the Senate that was looking into extrajudicial killings in Davao City, territory of then-president Rodrigo Duterte.

After the New York Times recently published a story about Edgar having left the country, we knew it was a good time to release the 2023 interview and update it with fresher insights and information from Father Flavie Villanueva who helped protect him.

I first met Edgar in September 2016 when he was staying in a safe house somewhere in the south; he was in his mid or late 50s then. He told us his story as a hitman under the Davao Death Squad, or what was first known as the Lambada Boys. When he appeared before the Senate, he was grilled and insulted because he mixed up masking tape with packing tape used to wrap the heads of EJK victims.

He said he had killed hundreds upon the orders of his direct supervisor, Arturo Lascañas. Both Lascañas and Matobato have since turned whistleblowers against former President and former Davao City Mayor Rodrigo Duterte. 

I met him again in March 2023. He was already bald, had grown thinner, and had aged.

He had gotten sick and had been operated on. But what was striking was that he was consistent in many things he said in 2016. 

Father Flavie and his network had helped Edgar in the past seven or so years and had known him quite well. Father Flavie had also been very supportive of families left behind by EJK victims under Duterte. 

We will be reviewing my 2023 interview, which Edgar wanted to do to have everything on record in case anything untoward happened to him. He said his testimony could be useful somehow, in proving that the DDS actually did exist and did carry out gruesome killings. The interview is his contribution to the EJK investigations.

Paano ba nakalabas si Edgar if we know for a fact na wala na siya in the Philippines?

Fr. Flavie: Let me say hello, Chay, and to all those following Rappler. Gusto ko sanang sagutin ng parang Pinoy Henyo, himpapawid, dagat, or…

The question is, paano? Let me just begin by saying, bringing it in a spiritual realm that it is by grace that he’s still alive to this day.

Pangalawa, dugtong-dugtong ang mga tao, tumulong ang mga tao. Mayroong mga taong nag.. sa pamasahe, sa lodging, kahit sa maleta.

At nabigyan ng pagkakataon at ang alam ko ay nakalipad siya nang zero glitch. Merong mga tanong, merong mga sa alaala ko ay kinukuwento sa akin na merong saan pupunta? Yung typical questions sa customs o sa immigration. Pero awa ng Diyos… Nakalabas siya pala.

Chay Hofileña: Totoo ba na under protective custody na siya and kung saan man siya naroon, he’s in a safe place?

Fr. Flavie: I would like to believe that. And I was also told of that some months ago.

Chay Hofileña: Would you let us know, siguro recount mo lang, paano mo ba siya na-encounter for the first time and then ano ‘yung initial impressions mo of the man? Ano’ng year? When was the first time?

Fr. Flavie: Madaming alaala na bumabalik sa tanong mo, Chay. 2017-18, I believe, was the first. I was busy with the EJK killings and that was a time when a knock came from our door to help provide an ear, a friend, an accompaniment sa kanya. And doon ay tinawag ako, dumating sa aking pintuan ang pakiusap kung puwede akong gumabay, katulad ng paggabay natin sa mga widows and orphans. So I didn’t think twice and said yes, I would be honored to accompany him. And once a week or three times a month, papasyal, dadala ng pagkain, kakamustahin, kasama na dun ‘yung pagproseso sa kanya, at kasama na dun ‘yung konting katikismo, kasama na dun ‘yung do-document ng kanyang mga salaysay, labas sa mga ibang legal matters na salaysay. So, 2018, I’m trying to see late 17, or early 18, was the first time I met him in a humble place. Dito na, dito na sa ano…

Chay Hofileña: Sa Maynila?

Fr. Flavie: Metro Manila.

Chay Hofileña: Okay. What were your impressions of him? Nung una mo siyang nakita. Kasi di ba, he was branded as, assassin ito, for hire ito, mamamatay tao. Tapos nakita mo siya na maliit na tao, hindi articulate siguro, pero mamamatay tao. Natakot ka ba that you’d have to care for him or protect him?

Fr. Flavie: There was more of the concern for the person. I saw a person in the semblance of St. Paul na nung nais na magbago ay binatikos pa. I saw a person just like me who was recovering from drugs at kaliwa’t kanan ang batikos. So there was a lot of empathy. But honestly, sabi ko rin sa kanya, ano, marunong ka talaga pumatay? Ang liit-liit mo eh. So sabi niya, Father, gusto mong ipakita ko lang sa iyo kung paano. Ahh, mamaya, mamaya, mamaya. But there was this, it’s not a doubt, but there was thoughts of me trying to imagine how would he do such a thing? How could he accomplish such a bloody, and I will even say exercise, sa ganoong klaseng stature niya? But I think sa panahon ng pakikilakbay ko sa kanya, malalim. I think a lot has got to do with how Duterte really created this cult, and infused on these people, ganito gawin ‘nyo kasi ito ang tama, ganito gawin ‘nyo kasi tinutulungan ‘nyo ang bayan na malinis sa mga salot ng lipunan. That was the thing that, if I may recall, Edgar was holding on to.

Chay Hofileña: Let’s review my 2023 interview. Tapos siguro meron pang mati-trigger na ibang memories at saka insights. Ito ‘yung bandang simula nung interview.

Fr. Flavie: Parang processing pala ito. Sige, please.

Killings: Treat victims like animals

Chay Hofileña: Noong 2017, ang sabi ‘nyo hindi kayo magpapakulong at sabi ‘nyo rin, magpapakamatay kayo. Hanggang ngayon, ganoon pa rin ba ang pakiramdam ninyo?

Chay Hofileña: Father, nung dini-describe niya yan, na-envision mo ba, parang na-visualize mo ba papaano niya ito ginagawa? At saka naikuwento pa ba niya ‘yung ibang methods that they resorted to, to kill people?

Fr. Flavie: Yeah. Listening to this, Chay, two, three things flashed in my memory. First would be, nung una, hindi ko lubos maisip bakit ganun ka brutal. But if you would also look at their background, similar to other henchmen, ano sila eh, matador, butcher, sa mga nakilala ko. So, ibig sabihin parang kung gaano nila katayin ‘yung hayop, ganun din ang pagtrato nila sa kanilang mga biktima. Hayop, hindi tao. The second image that came to me was, the killings when Digong was president. There were very bloody ones and I remember homeless pa. Hindi ko na sabihin ‘yung pa… Sabihin na natin si Alpha. Tatlong araw siya nawala. Natagpuan namin. Balat ‘yung mukha, tapos may barena, tapos may paso-paso. Another, si Bert, ang tama ice pick, hindi baril, tapos may smiley. Parang pinaso, nilagyan ng tatak, tapos naka-smiley.

Chay Hofileña: Parang hayop talaga.

Fr. Flavie: Hayop ang trato nila, hindi tao. Kahit siguro, I know how it is to, when I’m in the influence of drugs and I could be callous, pero hindi influence ‘to ng drugs eh. There has to be something, it’s a power beyond drugs that one has to possess for one to accomplish this. So, na-replicate ‘yung paano nila ginawa ‘yung patayan sa Davao was somewhat replicated when Duterte was president. Kasama dun ‘yung pagma-masking tape. Di ba? Yun para sa akin.

Chay Hofileña: Packing tape daw, Father.

Fr. Flavie: Ah sorry, okay, packing tape pala.

Chay Hofileña: Sabi ng mga senador.

Fr. Flavie: I doubt kung may gray packing tape na nung panahon nila sa Davao. Anyway, para sa akin, isang pagpapahiwatig ng pagbubura ng mukha ng tao. Hindi lang cho-chop-chop-in, pero, mas gusto nilang balutan. Ibig sabihin, hindi importante itong mukha na ‘to. Hindi importante itong taong ‘to. And, that is, if there’s a word beyond callous, ‘yun ‘yun…

Chay Hofileña: So Father, bakit kaya, what caused him to turn around and be a whistleblower? Tapos tinalikuran niya ang DDS, tinalikuran niya si Lascañas and Duterte. Ano kaya ‘yung reason for that?

The role of conscience

Fr. Flavie: Buo o nabuo ang kanyang konsensiya. ‘Yung dahilan kung bakit siya namulat, ‘yung dahilan kung bakit kumalas siya sa grupo out of the blue. Sa aking pakikinig sa kanya, nalaman niya ‘yung tama at mali.

Chay Hofileña: I remember binanggit niya ‘yan dun sa interview. Balikan natin, Father..

Edgar’s partner

Chay Hofileña: Binanggit niya ‘yung partner niya.

Ano ‘yung naging role niya sa buhay ni Edgar? Lalo na, ‘yun, he said nga na nakukonsensiya na siya. Meron ba siyang naging role sa kanyang conversion?

Fr. Flavie: Malaki. Malaki ang role nung kanyang partner sa conversion, Chay. Kasi ito ‘yung taong kasama niya day in, day out. Lalong higit nung kumalas na sila, wala siyang ibang nasasandalan, nakakausap. And it’s not without any trial, or trials even, na pinagdaanan nung dalawa. Madaling araw tatawag dati ‘yung babae na, ayoko na Father, pagod na. So but until now, until now magkasama pa sila. Pangalawa, iniisip ko dati na naka…nandoon lang sila sa isang munting barong-barong. Walang labasan.

Chay Hofileña: Parang kulungan.

Fr. Flavie: Kulungan talaga. Kulungan talaga. And ‘yung partner niya, ang kausap niya. So, she played a very crucial role sa kanyang sanity plus sa pananampalataya. Ito ‘yung typical, traditional na babae na nananampalataya, nagdadasal. And sa pangatlong aspeto, ‘yung gabay sa pag-iisip, kasi alam naman natin, no read, no write si Edgar. So itong partner niya ang naging kumbaga gabay sa kanya sa mga pagdedesisyon, sa mga pagbabasa, sa mga usaping salapi, sa pang-araw-araw. So it would have been difficult to imagine how he would have survived without her.

Chay Hofileña: Hindi ba siya at any point, ayoko na? Parang masyado na itong matagal, nakakulong ako, hindi ko alam saan patungo ito. Give up na ako. Kasi sabi niya, hindi, tuloy, tuloy. Pero, I’m sure at some point, nag-waver din siya.

Fr. Flavie: Madami, Chay. Madaming panahon na gusto nang umayaw. Madaming panahon na gusto nang even to take his own life. Hindi naman madami, sorry. But there were. There were. The sense of helplessness, the sense of no direction, lalo na nung nag-pandemic. That was the most critical time for him. And, sabi na naman na, nagkaroon siya ng ilang physical ailments.

Chay Hofileña: Yes. 

Fr. Flavie: ‘Yun ‘yung, para sa akin na, isa sa tumutulong, ay, that was very challenging for us. Pero, naitawid. Naitawid. Sa usaping salapi, sa usaping pagpapagamot, naitawid. Kaya sabi ko rin sa kanya, sa kabila ng pagkakaroon ng pakiramdam na kawalan, tingnan mo rin ito. Tingnan mo rin itong, ‘yung pagkakataon na ito na hindi bumibitaw ang Diyos. Gaya nung kuwentong alitaptap, may liwanag sa kabila ng kadilimang seemingly na bumabalot sa atin.

Chay Hofileña: Critical din dito I think, ‘yung impatience, is the role of the ICC. Parang puwede bang i-pin ang hope sa ICC na finally things will move, finally justice will prevail. Pero siguro balikan lang natin ‘yung interview about ano ‘yung feelings niya tungkol sa ICC back then…

The ICC

Chay Hofileña: Ano ang interes ng ICC? Ano daw ang dahilan kung bakit kayo kinausap?

Edgar Matobato: Gusto nila ma-kung kung totoong-totoo raw ang patayan sa Davao. Tinanong nila ako kung kailan ka nag-umpisa sa trabaho, sabi ko 1988 pa ako nagtrabaho ng pumatay ng tao…. 

Chay Hofileña: Meron ba kayong parang, na gusto sana na tulong na ginagawa ng ICC, para sa mga witnesses na katulad ninyo?

Edgar Matobato: Oo ma’am. Gusto ko nga maghingi sa kanila ng tulong para ma…kung ano man, mabigyan naman ang iba, kay mahirap man.

Chay Hofileña: Ano ang naging buhay ‘nyo nitong… Bakit mahirap?

Edgar Matobato: Mahirap ma’am. Doon lang ako nakakulong sa bahay. Tapos hindi makalabas, hindi ka makakita ng tao. Parang, maiksi lang ang buhay mo. Doon ako nagkasakit. Wala kang makikita kundi pader lang ang makikita mo.

Chay Hofileña: Paano niyo ‘yan natiis?

Edgar Matobato: Tiniis ko lang ‘yun ma’am para magkaroon ng hustisya. Hanggang ngayon ‘yung iniisip ko nga, makasalita lang ako, ma’am. Para alam ng buong mundo nga mali talaga sila sa ginawa nila.

Chay Hofileña: Noong nakausap ko si [Arturo] Lascañas, parang ganyan din ‘yung tono niya, gusto niya ng hustisya para doon sa… At wala rin siyang takot. Ganoon din ba kayo, walang takot?

Edgar Matobato: Sinabi ko naman sa ICC noong tinanong nila ako, is willing to die, sabi ko, is voluntary, wala kayong panagutan sa akin, sabi ko. Basta matapos lang ‘yung kung ano ang hatol sa akin, tatanggapin ko ‘yun ma’am. Kasi matanda naman ako. Wala naman akong kuwan.